D R A F T

MINUTES OF THE
FIRST MEETING
of the
FIRE STATISTIC USER GROUP
held on
6 DECEMBER, 2001
in
ROOM G28, HORSEFERRY HOUSE

Present:

Mr G R Evans (Chairman)	Fire Brigades Union
Mr J E Gorman (Secretary)	DTLR
Mr M Eady	DTLR
Mr I Evans	DTLR
Mr D Hobbs	DTLR
Dr B T Hume	DTLR
Dr D M S Peace	DTLR
Mr M Reed	DTLR
Mr R Schofield	DTLR
Mr T Thorne	DTLR
Ms. L Watson	DTLR
Mr S Birt	Association of British Insurers
Mr N Charlston	Institution of Fire Engineers
Mr G Holden	CACFOA
Mr S Kidd	Fire Industry Confederation
Ms. V Johnson	London Fire Brigade
Mr G Lipscombe	Association of Building Engineers
Mr I McConnachie	HM Fire Service Inspectorate for Scotland
Mr B Tucker	Fire Service College

1. INTRODUCTION

1.1 The Chairman opened the meeting by introducing himself, explaining his position, how the Fire Statistics User Group was created by the Fire Safety Advisory Board and what he believed it's role would be and what it was intended too achieve. He then asked the attendees to introduce themselves individually and to complete the attendance sheet with their contact details and particularly E-mail addresses so the Secretariat could compile a membership list.

2. APOLOGIES FOR ABSENCE.

2.1 Apologies for non attendance were received from Mr. M. Fordham of the FBU.

3. PROPOSED TERMS OF REFERENCE

3.1 A paper setting out the proposed Terms of Reference for the Fire Statistics User Group (FSUG - hereinafter referred to as the User Group) ) was tabled at the meeting for consideration by the members present. It was noted that these proposals were not set 'in stone' and could be amended at any time by a majority of the members of the User Group if it was felt necessary. However, any amendment, or changes, to the Terms Of Reference would also require the agreement of the Fire Safety Advisory Board (FSAB) before being finalised.

Dr. David Peace (DTLR) asked the Chairman if he would explain the relationship of the User Group to the FSAB and did he feel that the FSAB was the appropriate body for the User Group to report too. The Chairman replied that it was his view that the User Group required an administrative home and route through which it could report both to the CFBAC and Ministers. As the FSAB had in effect created the User Group, the remit of which went beyond simply servicing the statistical needs of the FSAB, the Chairman felt it would be both appropriate and proper for him to report in the first instance on the activities of the User group to the Chairman of the FSAB and thus the FSAB itself.

Mr. T. Thorne (DTLR) pointed out that in the fifth term of reference the term Fire Risk Management Working Group was now incorrect and it should refer to the Fire Risk Management Advisory Board. It was agreed to amend that title and Term of Reference accordingly.

A general discussion followed after which the members of the User Group agreed that the proposed terms of reference should be accepted as its Terms Of Reference.

A copy of the Terms of Reference as agreed by the members of the User Group are attached as Appendix A to these Minutes.

The agreed Terms of Reference would now be submitted to the Chair of the FSAB, for approval by the FSAB.

4. FIRE INFORMATION STRATEGY

4.1 The Chairman had written to Ms Pamela Castle, the Chairman of the Fire Safety Advisory Board, on the 5 November, 2001, to propose that the User Group would initially develop a fire information strategy based on the draft Terms Of Reference. The User Group would:

identify, catalogue and monitor existing sources of fire data
encourage collaboration and data sharing between users and producers of fire data
identify and prioritise any shortfalls in the existing data provision
support policy making bodies in their use of fire statistics,
make recommendations accordingly.

The Chairman sought the agreement and approval of the members of the User Group for this draft fire information strategy.

4.2 Ms. L. Watson (DTLR) suggested that additional resources may be required including the acquisition of funds if certain actions were to be undertaken in the future. The Chairman said that he completely agreed with Ms. Watson that a lack of resources, particularly human resources, may well be a problem in the future and he was acutely aware of the importance of the resource issue to the work of the User Group. However, until clear evidence existed that a lack of resources was causing difficulties for the work of the User Group it would be difficult for him to make a case to the Chairman of the FSAB, or indeed, Ministers, for any additional resources, whatever they may be. Following a general discussion on this matter it was agreed that this was an important issue which would be held in abeyance until further discussion could be held at a later date.

4.3 Following a further lengthy discussion on the points set out in the proposed fire information strategy the members of the User Group were generally content and agreed and approved the draft proposals as submitted to them by the Chairman.

A copy of the Fire Information Strategy as agreed by the User Group is attached to these Minutes as Appendix B.

The agreed fire information strategy would now be submitted to the Chair of the FSAB.

5. AVAILABILITY OF EXISTING SOURCES OF DATA

5.1 In the creation process for the User Group, Dr Hume (DTLR) had written to the member organisations of the FSAB asking them if they wished to become members of the User Group and also to complete a questionnaire with details of how they collected fire statistics information (if any) and how they used fire statistics. Responses had been received from:

the Fire Protection Association
the Association of British Insurers
the Fire Brigades Union
the Health and Safety Executive
the Chief and Assistant Chief Fire Officers Association
London Fire Brigade

5.2 It was noted that all statistics needed to be included in any survey which considered the type of statistical data which was available. The Chairman said that he believed that one of the first tasks of the User Group was to create a database of those organisations which already kept data bases of fire statistical information, what that information was and how and through what medium it might be accessed. He pointed out that this process was encapsulated in the first of their Terms of Reference which they had just agreed. This proposal was therefore agreed by the User Group.

5.3 Domestic Fires: DTLR reminded the members of the User Group that many small domestic fires were not included in the fire statistics as they were extinguished by members of the public without being reported to the fire brigade. The Chairman also pointed out that that many small fires that were attended by fire services were not reported as they did not fit the Fire Damage Report 1 (FDR1) criteria for reporting. A brief discussion on the effectiveness of the FDR1 as a fire statistical tool then took place. It was agreed that this issue might form an Agenda item for the User Group in the future.

5.4 Customer Functions: The Chairman reminded members of the group that the work of the User Group would effectively be driven by requests for fire statistical information that they received from bodies or persons requesting such information and their particular organisations could also become customers of the User Group if they wished.

5.5 FSUG Report: The Chairman said he would create a report to the Chair of the FSAB giving details of the issues covered at this meeting of the User Group and this would include the various sources of fire data identified so far, plus a copy of the unconfirmed Minutes.

6. ANY OTHER BUSINESS

6.1 There was no further business to discuss so the Chairman thanked members for their participation before closing the meeting.

7. DATE OF THE NEXT MEETING

7.1 It was agreed that the next meeting would be held at 10.30 am, on Wednesday 13 March, 2002

The venue is now confirmed as Room G28 of Horseferry House.

Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions
Fire Research Division
Fire, Health and Safety Directorate
HORSEFERRY HOUSE

04 January 2002

EF/01 51/147/1

Distribution:

To all members of the Fire Statistics User Group
Ms Castle, Fire Safety Advisory Board

Appendix 'A'

FIRE STATISTICS USER GROUP

TERMS OF REFERENCE

To develop a fire information strategy which would:-

identify and monitor existing sources of fire data
encourage collaboration and data sharing between users and producers of fire data
identify and prioritise any shortfalls in existing data provision

and make recommendations accordingly.

To prioritise and implement recommendations arising from the agreed Fire Information Strategy as directed.

Provide advice and a core reference point in respect of the review of the fire statistical returns database.

Support policy making bodies in their use of fire statistics.

Provide advice to government on the fire community's statistical needs through the Fire Risk Management Advisory Board, the Arson Control Forum and the Fire Safety Advisory Board.

Appendix 'B'