MINUTES OF THE
SECOND MEETING
of the
FIRE STATISTIC USER GROUP
held on
13 MARCH, 2002
in
ROOM G28, HORSEFERRY HOUSE

Present:

Mr G R Evans (Chair)	Fire Brigades Union
Mr J E Gorman (Secretary)	DTLR
Mr M Eady	DTLR
Mr I Evans	DTLR
Dr D M S Peace	DTLR
Mr M Reed	DTLR
Ms. L Watson	DTLR
Mr S Birt	Association of British Insurers
Mr N Charlston	Institution of Fire Engineers
Mr. S. Emery	English Heritage
Mr G Holden	CACFOA
Ms. V Johnson	London Fire Brigade
Mr G Lipscombe	Association of Building Engineers
Mr I McConnachie	HM Fire Service Inspectorate for Scotland
Mr B Tucker	Fire Service College
Mr T Wilmott	World Fire Statistics Centre
Mr T Paish	World Fire Statistics Centre
Ms P Castle	Chair - Fire Safety Advisory Board

1. INTRODUCTION

1.1 The Chairman thanked the representatives of PETARDS who had given a presentation on their fire investigation database before the start of the User Group Meeting which was well received by all attendees.

1.2 The Chairman welcomed the Chair of the Fire Safety Advisory Board, Mrs. Pamela Castle, Mr S. Emery of English Heritage and Mr. T Wilmot and Mr. A. Paish of the World Fire Statistics Centre to the meeting.

1.3 The Chairman then introduced Mrs. Pamela Castle, the Chair of the Fire Safety Advisory Board, and invited her to address the meeting. She said that she appreciated the work which was being undertaken by the Fire Statistics User Group (FSUG) and thanked everyone for their participation in this important area of work.

2. APOLOGIES FOR ABSENCE.

2.1 Apologies for non attendance were received from Mr. M. Fordham of the FBU, Mr S Kidd of the Fire Industry Federation, Mr S Birt of the Association of British Insurers, Miss C Reynolds, Mr D Hobbs, Mr T Thorne and Mr R Schofield of DTLR.

3. MINUTES OF THE PREVIOUS MEETING

3.1 The minutes of the previous meeting were agreed without amendment.

4. MATTERS ARISING

4.1 Minute 3.1 - Proposed Terms of Reference: It was noted that the collection of fire statistics related, primarily, to the United Kingdom although there would be some merit in the inclusion of fire statistics from overseas where appropriate.

5. REPORT TO THE FIRE SAFETY ADVISORY BOARD

5.1 Miss Watson suggested the inclusion of data from the collection of FDR1 statistics and said she would forward the details in writing to the secretariat in the next few days.

[Action Ms Watson.]

5.2 The User Group did not have any further points to raise so it was agreed that the report should be accepted.

6. CREATION OF FIRE INFORMATION DATABASE

6.1 The Chairman suggested the formation of a small working party to discuss the production of a report giving details on what existing fire safety data was available, which organisation owned it, what it was used for and how it might be accessed. This was considered a good idea and it was agreed that the working party would consist of Miss Watson of DTLR, Mr Jerome of the Fire Protection Association, Mr Holden of the Chief and Assistant Chief Fire Officers Association, Mr Emery of English Heritage and Miss Johnson of the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority. Mr Jerome agreed at the request of the Chair to arrange the first meeting and asked the Secretary to send him the contact details for the members concerned.

6.2 Mr Berry of DTLR said an ongoing project was currently looking at the standards of fire cover which was looking at risk assessment, response times and tolerability of risk, and the outcome would almost certainly result in statistical additional information being both needed and compiled for future use in supporting these projects.

6.3 Mrs Castle, Chair of the Fire Safety Advisory Board, said that the collection of statistical data was a gigantic task which could occupy the FSUG for some considerable time. The Chairman said the project would probably take approximately 18 months to complete.

6.4 Following some debate about the type and amount of information that might need to be collected and collated the Chairman suggested that Dr Peace and Mr Berry held discussions to agree the type of data which was available in the fire divisions of DTLR and what would be needed. The Chairman asked Mr Berry if he would draft a paper for the next FSUG meeting outlining the type of statistical information likely to be needed from the Fire Statistics User Group in the future, so that an assessment of workload and resource requirements could be made.

[Action - HMI Berry]

7. PROPOSALS FOR STATISTICAL ANALYSIS WORK PROGRAMS

7.1 The Chairman suggested that it might be useful if the Association of British Insurers made an appropriate contribution to the proposals for Statistical Analysis Work Programs. Mr Berry said there will be a large number of non fire service stake holders who will require data.

7.2 The Department of National Heritage wished to discuss fire loss in historic buildings, but it was suggested that they should produce a paper for discussion at the next meeting.

[Action - Mr. Emery - English Heritage]

8. FORTHCOMING EVENTS

8.1 The Chair recommended that this item would be a Standing Agenda Item for the Group so that members were made aware of forthcoming events and could also notify the Group if their organisation was organising an event.

The Chair said this would also be a regular item on the Agenda of the Fire Safety Advisory Board.

[Action - All members please note]

Secretary's Note: The Secretariat had received a copy of the Fire Prevention Fire Engineers Journal which contained details of various events during March, April and May. Anyone requiring a copy of these events should send their postal address to the Secretary and a copy would be sent by post.

9. ANY OTHER BUSINESS

9.1 World Fire Statistics Centre:

Mr Paish of World Fire Statistics Centre remarked that it would be useful to look at the Department of Health's statistics relating to deaths caused by fire as it was based on information obtained from death certificates and did not include those deaths where fire was not considered to be a contributory factor. The Chairman suggested that the working party set up to look at the creation of a fire information database could also look at this proposal and make appropriate enquiries.

9.2 False Alarms Data Collection Pilot Scheme:

The CACFOA/BFPSA/DTLR Liaison forum was set up to provide a platform for discussion on common fire safety interests. In 1997 the forum launched its national campaign to reduce unwanted fire signals from AFD systems (FADA's). In support of the campaign, HMFSI carried out a Thematic Review, Reducing False Alarms, which was published in March, 2001. The Thematic Review identified the lack of useful data provided by the current FDR3 and a Task Group of the forum was set up to look at this issue.

9.3 A seminar was held at the Fire Service College to present the Task Group's proposals for the formation of a pilot scheme for improved data collection. The proposals received a positive response and as a result a number of brigades had volunteered to participate in the scheme. The participating brigades had been named as Greater Manchester, Lancashire, Lincolnshire, Cleveland and, possibly, Nottinghamshire. These participating brigades represented a cross section of different brigades and various types of mobilising systems that were in use.

9.4 The scheme was based on a three-code system which was designed to be simply operated and collected by the brigade's mobilising system. The data would be collated in common format, probably Xcel, then sent to a central collation point in Tyne and Wear Fire Brigade. It was proposed to involve the Research and Statistics Directorate at this stage, but the results of the scheme would be fed in to the review of the FDR system currently being undertaken.

10. DATE OF THE NEXT MEETING

10.1 The next meeting will be held at 10.30 am, on Wednesday 5 June, 2002, in room G28, Horseferry House.

Department for Transport, Local Government and the Regions
Fire Research Division
Fire, Health and Safety Directorate
HORSEFERRY HOUSE

15 April, 2002

EF/01 51/147/1

Distribution:

To all members of the Fire Statistics User Group
Ms Castle, Fire Safety Advisory Board