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Fire and Rescue Statistics User Group

32nd Meeting of the
Fire & Rescue Statistics User Group
held on
22nd June 2011 1.30 pm in
Eland House, Victoria St, SW1


Ms Sheila Pantry

Fire Information Group

Ms Kirsty Bosley

Scottish Government

Mr Gavin Sayer

Communities and Local Government

Ms Sylvia Williams

Communities and Local Government

Mr Jon Gamble

Communities and Local Government

Mr John Curtis

Merseyside FRS (VC)

Mr Rob Gazzard

South East England Wild Fire Group

Mr Tony Paish

World Centre for Fire Statistics

Mr Stefan Raue

University of Glasgow

Mr James Glocking

Fire Protection Association

Mr Graham Simons

Fire Industry Association

1. Chair's Introduction

Kirsty Bosley welcomed everyone to the meeting and introduced our guest speaker Mr Stefan Raue who was giving a presentation on Evaluation of the Prevention and Protection Activities on Commercial, Public and Heritage Buildings.

2. Apologies

Mr David Rae

Fire Service College

Mr Simon Bird

Fire Protection Association

Ms Lindsay Bennison

Scottish Government

Ms Claire Davis

Welsh Assembly Government

Mr Dennis Davis


Mr Steve Emery

English Heritage

Mr Mike Coull

Historic Scotland

3. Minutes of the 31st Meeting

The minutes of the 31st Meeting were accepted with minor amendments as an accurate record of the meeting.

4. Matters Arising

Gavin Sayer reported on his efforts to involve relevant FRS contacts in the FRSUG business. He had forwarded a number of names to Jon Gamble to add to a subsidiary distribution list for FRSUG reports.

Gavin Sayer reported that his item on user engagement with fire statistics for the FRSUG website was still in preparation.

Jon Gamble had circulated the Cabinet Office Fires Futures paper.

Sheila Pantry noted that the FRSUG website would benefit from more news and features from around the group.

The meeting agreed to keep EU Fire Statistics as a standing agenda item until the Greenstreet Berman Report was published by DCLG.

5. Presentation

Evaluation of the Prevention and Protection Activities on Commercial, Public and Heritage Buildings by Stefan Raue
(See attachment)

The meeting agreed that the presentation raised many interesting concerns about the cost-benefit ratio of fire protection work.

Action: Gavin Sayer agreed to forward the link to the latest economic cost of fire analysis

6. FRSUG Constitution

Gavin Sayer had prepared a revised FRSUG Constitution and this had been circulated around the group for initial consideration. Suggested changes came under two categories:

  1. reflecting changes in nomenclature/organisation within DCLG and the accompanying changes in policy - from central direction to a sector-led emphasis - reflecting the localism agenda of the Coalition Government;
  2. changes which reflected the ambition of the FRSUG to reach out to a wider constituency of fire statistics users and actively engage with them about their needs and concerns.

Sheila Pantry broadly welcomed the changes and indicated that they were going in the right direction. The changes were of a piece with the Fire Futures recommendations published in December 2010. Dennis Davis was chairing a sub group to carry these recommendations forward in the area of knowledge management. This group was considering four themes in knowledge management:

  1. innovation/pure research;
  2. applied research;
  3. available statistics;
  4. access to information (can it be found on the web?).

Sheila insisted on the importance of the FRSUG maintaining its independence while incorporating any proposed changes.

Action: Dennis Davis to update the group on the progress of the sector-led forum.

Action: Jon Gamble to circulate the proposed Constitution a month before the next meeting. The group to decide on the proposed changes at the meeting.

Action: ALL - to propose any further amendments of additions to the constitution at earliest convenience.

7. Fire Community Partnership - update

Covered by previous item.

8. FRSUG website

Sheila Pantry reported that updates had been made to the FRSUG website. More news items would be desirable. Brief biographical items would be helpful alongside contact details - outlining roles and organisation function.

Action: Gavin Sayer agreed to produce an item on user engagement (as previously discussed) for the FRSUG website.

9. Update on IDeA work on vulnerable people in fire

(to be carried forward to the next meeting)

10. Any Other Business

Sylvia Williams circulated a draft user feedback form which was going to be published on the DCLG website. A number of suggestions from the meeting proved to be useful.

Action: Jon Gamble agreed to circulate the draft form via email in case members thought of any further suggestions

Action: Gavin Sayer agreed to provide Tony Paish with some contact details for Northern Ireland fire statistics.

Action: John Curtis agreed to circulate a link to the research being carried out at John Moores University in Liverpool

11. Date of Next Meeting

Date of the next meeting: October 2011; Location - TBA