36th Meeting of the
Fire & Rescue Statistics User Group
held on
25th October 2012, 1.00 – 3.00 pm in
Eland House, Victoria St, SW1
Kirsty Bosley |
Scottish Government – Justice Analytical Services – Fire Research and Statistics |
Steve Kelly |
DCLG – Building Regulations |
Charlotte Reay |
RISC Authority |
Daniel Walker-Nolan |
Electrical Safety Council |
Dave Berry |
UK Timber Framed Association |
Dave Sibert |
FBU |
David Wales |
South East Fire Investigation Group |
Simon Bryant |
Chair of Family Group 2 |
David Townsend |
International Fire Investigators and Consultants |
Dennis Davis |
Fire Sector Federation |
Nazneen Chowdery |
DCLG Fire Statistics |
Nigel Firkins |
British Automatic Fire Sprinkler Association |
Peter Holland |
Institution of Fire Engineers |
Jeremy Fraser-Mitchell |
Building Research Establishment |
Rafal Pisula |
DCLG Fire Research |
Riana Smit |
London Fire Brigade |
Richard Johnes |
Fire Service College |
Ron Nairn |
Scottish IRS Forum |
Sheila Pantry |
Fire Information Group UK |
Simon Flood |
South West FRSs and Family Group 4 |
Stewart Kidd |
British Automatic Fire Sprinkler Association |
1. Chair’s Introduction
Kirsty Bosley welcomed everyone to the meeting. The excellent and revitalised representation from a wider fire community was noted and appreciated.
2. Apologies
Tony Paish, Gavin Sayer, Graham Ellicott, Greg Barber, Julia McMorrow, Rob Gazzard, Simon Bird, Steve Emery, Terry Edge, Tim Humphrey
3. Minutes of the 35th meeting
The minutes of the 35th Meeting were accepted with no amendments. It will now be published on the FRSUG website and on the Knowledge Hub.
4. Matters arising
There were no matters arising
5. FRSUG Proposed Plan of work 2012
Kirsty Bosley said that proposed plan of work should define what we want this group to do. She was keen that it should be about bringing together all of those with an interest in producing and using fire statistics, and where possible improving the knowledge base.
In the past there had been a FRSUG action plan, the core of which remains on the agenda. In February 2012 this plan had been revisited by correspondence. The views to come back from that were largely around improved use of the existing data, although that was recognised as only the start of the renewed plan. Members of the group raised new issues of interest which will be developed into the new FRSUG action plan and are noted below.
a. Website updating and other publicity needs
Sheila Pantry presented an overview of the FRSUG website. She navigated the members through the main menu and showed what is available under each heading. There was some discussion around the value of maintaining both the Knowledge Hub and the FRSUG website. Sheila Pantry ran through the FRSUG website and the group expressed their appreciation of her work in this area. The group decided that the FRSUG website should remain as the primary location for all FRSUG material. However, because there is existing interest in the Knowledge Hub (in October 2012 there were 77 members signed up), along with its attraction to those with fire interests in other areas, the group decided to maintain the FRSUG presence on the Knowledge Hub but to include a link from there to the FRSUG website.
The website needs to remain up-to-date (it was noted, for example, that some contact details are out of date) and everyone was invited to provide any relevant information for the FRSUG website to Sheila.
Action: All members to provide updates to Sheila Pantry who will update the FRSUG website.
b. News of the Fire Information Group UK
Sheila Pantry said that the Fire Information Group will celebrate their 25th anniversary next year and plan to organise a seminar to mark the occasion. She invited FRSUG to contribute to the seminar by delivering a presentation. It will be a good opportunity for FRSUG members to get to meet with the Fire Information Group and share their aims and knowledge.
c. Dissemination activities
Following the recent consultation exercise in which everyone on the FRSUG distribution list was asked about their continuing interest in the group, Kirsty has updated the FRSUG membership list and will post it, without email addresses, on the FRSUG website. Also attached at Annex A. The exercise is part of the reason for the increased attendance at this meeting, though members did question whether there were some gaps in the membership (CFOA was mentioned).
Action: all members to consider who else should be approached for interest in FRSUG
d. The FRSUG action plan
Sheila Pantry asked members whether anyone wants any particular fire statistics to be publicised. If so, send them to her and she’ll post them on the website.
Action: all members to send anything for publication to Sheila
e. New Item: Economic cost of fires
Dennis Davis and other FRSUG members felt that the economic cost of fire is an area that is currently under-informed. Peter Holland noted that the FPA large loss data is no longer available. Dennis briefed members about the work that the Fire Sector Federation is starting which aims to build on the DCLG cost of fire model. Dennis and Dave Sibert are leading on the work and plan to review and extend the methodology and data sources used in the model. All members were invited to read the papers http://www.frsug.org/ and comment to Dave Sibert and or Dennis Davis, and join the working group if appropriate. FRSUG decided to maintain a watching brief on this area of work.
DCLG are looking to update the data in their economic cost of fire model, though it was noted that this does not include special services, environmental or heritage losses.
Members felt that they were missing insurance information on fire losses, particularly at the local political level. Charlotte mentioned the RISC Authority database which was set up 5 years ago and considers large loss fires. The aim is to build up the database and provide updated statistics. Issues about the detail of IRS and how well it can answer the questions around fire losses were raised, but it was pointed out that FRSUG is not the forum for discussing amendments to IRS, other groups exist for that purpose.
Dave Berry talked about the modern methods of construction used in timber framed building and Jeremy Fraser Mitchell talked about his project at BRE looking at the costs of fires in warehouses using the FPA database.
Other areas where members took interest are impact of fire on businesses and fire insurance, environmental cost of fire and area damaged by fire.
Action: Dennis to circulate the Cost of fire papers. All members to review and comment if they wish.
Action: To consider all the ongoing work on fire losses and include an agenda item on it at the next meeting.
f. New item: Fires and incidents of special interest
The issue of identifying and reporting incidents of special interest was raised. There are some triggers within IRS, but it is impossible to incorporate, within a national and fixed reporting system, issues which are out of the ordinary or not yet identified. Dave Sibert suggested providing some free text boxes within IRS, which could be used for short term data collections, to be analysed by non-government organisations. While IRS issues remain outwith the scope of FRSUG, it was suggested that these occasional data collections could be part of a separate data collection exercise and may be better incorporated within the Fires of Special Interest forms. Discussion ranged around whether the data was needed as an immediate notification of issues that should be acted upon or whether it was for a two or three year research project. If it was the latter, much data does exist within IRS that should be used.
The group decided that the reporting of incidents of special interest should form a part of the FRSUG Action plan.
6. Fire Service College Library
Richard Johnes updated the group on the future of Fire Service College library following the Fire Service College sale decision. He said at present the library has around 70,000 books in its stock and lots of general materials. Many thousands of outdated books are being disposed of. A digitisation project is on hold as the bidding process for the sale is going through. He also informed that the historical and heritage stock is will be transferred to the Firefighters Memorial Trust and will then be loaned back to the new owners, hence ensuring its value to the nation. The existing College Library and Archive will remain part of the sale.
Access to the library has always been a resource issue since the College became a Trading Fund Agency and the work to digitise and make accessible online the material will help to provide a sustainable long-term solution.
Sheila pointed out that members should remember the existence of the British Library if they need reference material, though it was discussed whether the FSC library holds some work that the British Library does not.
7. Scottish fire reform – the future of data, reporting, local data, and FSEC
Kirsty Bosley reported that the single Scottish Fire and Rescue Service will come into being on 1st April 2013. At this stage the data collection and publications will have to reflect that single service. Her division are currently working to finalise the recording and reporting arrangements. Initial thoughts had been that all statistics would be the responsibility of the single service, but she is now writing an options paper about the best collection and delivery model for the future.
The new service will have more emphasis around local delivery at local authority level. Key items of incident data are already published at local authority level; this year’s data will be up on the website in November.
She added that responsibility for the FSEC model in Scotland has been handed over to the single Scottish Fire and Rescue Service, who will now liaise directly with DCLG on its updates and developments.
8. English Statistical report from DCLG
DCLG Publication
Nazneen reported that the latest DCLG statistical publication would comprise fewer tables as a result of the consultation exercise that was carried out. However the data would still be available in datasets on the internet.
Gavin Sayer had given his apologies for the meeting but provided the following report:
Progress on access to record-level data:
- Fire and rescue authorities in England can download an England data set of Fire and Rescue Incident and Casualty (IRS) data
- Two of the three fire and rescue authorities in Wales are considering joining in with this means of access
- Access to record-level data for others
- Target date has had to be put back to the end of January 2013. The plan is to produce a data base extract and put this into ONS and University of Essex secure data labs.
Action: Gavin will provide an update on record level IRS data in England at next FRSUG meeting.
Recent / current priorities include:
- Delivering Fire Statistics Great Britain – end November/early December.
- We have been working on three special analyses to be published on the same day. These are on:
- the impact of alcohol,
- Fires in timber frame buildings 2009–10 to 2011–12 (analysis of 3 years of data),
- relative frequency of fires in flats and houses
DCLG need to ensure compliance with UK Statistics Authority recommendations by end Nov. this includes
- write-up and publishing of Fire Statistics GB user survey (22 responses received)
- providing information for a National Audit Office review of government indicators
DCLG are also looking at the re-let of IT contracts that provide the Incident Recording System
Dave Berry, representing the UK Timber Frame Association was interested that DCLG are carrying out an analysis of fires in timber framed buildings and requested that the project manager within DCLG contact him about the work.
9. DCLG’s “FireDoc” system
Rafal Pisula delivered a presentation on ‘FireDoc’ system. It is an online, intranet based system that allows members to access all fire related information in the last sixty years. The system is a secure and powerful website that allows users to search through the entire library to find operational guidance. In 2010, there were 6,500 pieces of guidance which can be sorted out by categories. In addition to guidance, the library also has Fire Service Circulars and Dear Chief Officer Letters in its collection. The aim is to turn the system into a knowledge management resource for the DCLG fire team.
The group noted this valuable resource and asked about access to the system from outside DCLG.
Actions: Rafal will explore how to make the ‘FireDoc’ system publicly available
Dennis to alert the DCLG Director of the value of FireDoc to the wider community and offer the FRSUG web site as a host (amended post distribution)
10. Fire Severity
Ron Nairn gave an overview of a method developed in Fife to quantify fire severity in dwelling fires. Following situations where the service has been criticised for the number of accidental dwelling fires occurring, his team has developed a fire severity scoring table to measure the severity of fires. The table has got 1 to 5 rating scale. Severity can be broken down into: people, property and resources and each category is based on a number of IRS fields. The analysis has shown that 94% of all incidents fell into the ‘Slight’ or ‘Moderate’ categories and that 45% of all calls required no firefighter action on arrival. They are now looking to use this data to help target CFS activity on areas where serious fires have occurred in Fife.
Stewart Kidd pointed out that there are around 200 domestic sprinklers in Fife and it may be worth considering these in the analysis too.
Avon FRS and London have both carried out similar work, though it was noted that some of the fields in IRS were badly completed, making the analysis more difficult.
The presentation and report of the work are available.
11. “What information do you think you need to do your job properly?”
Sheila Pantry provided some valuable advice with regard to finding the information that people need. She said that using internet is not always very effective in terms of finding right link, and being sure that it is up-to-date and valid. Moreover, often the data is available somewhere but some sources offer services at a cost. The British Library is an excellent source of information, but do charge for services. She asked members to think seriously on the issue.
Daniel Walker-Nolan noted that there is much misleading information available on the internet about electrical issues.
12. AOB
Nigel Firkins raised the issue of finding valid data in support of sprinkler operations. He made the point that some IRS fields are unhelpful as they are confusing and often badly completed. While the group noted the points being raised, it was again felt that specific IRS amendments should be raised at the appropriate IRS forum. Nigel’s paper on data and sprinklers analysis is available on the FRSUG website on Automatic Sprinkler Suppression Systems Data
Dennis noted that CTIF have published their latest World Fire Data and that the FPA are distributing a free publication on risk and arson.
13. Date of the next meeting
The next meeting will be in February 2012. Members will be asked for suitable dates via doodle soon.
Annex A – Responses to the membership consultation September/October 2012
Name |
Representing |
|---|---|
Tim Humphrey |
ABI |
Nigel Firkins |
Automatic Fire Sprinkler Association |
Iain Gough |
BAFSA |
Terry Edge |
BIS |
Jeremy Fraser-Mitchell |
BRE |
Stewart Kidd |
British |
Simon Bryant |
Chair of Family Group 2 |
Nazneen Chowdery |
DCLG |
Brian Martin |
DCLG – Building Regs |
Gavin Sayer |
DCLG Fire stats |
Greg Barber |
Draeger |
Daniel Walker-Nolan |
Electrical Safety Council |
Steve Emery |
English Heritage |
Dave Sibert |
FBU |
Graham Ellicot |
Fire Industry Association |
Sheila Pantry |
Fire Information Group UK (FIG UK) |
Dennis Davis |
Fire Sector Federation |
Charlotte Reay |
FPA |
Simon Bird |
FPA |
Richard Johnes |
FSC |
Sharon Haire |
Historic Scotland |
Louise Craig |
IFE |
Peter Holland |
IFE |
David Townsend |
International Fire Investigators and Consultants |
Riana Smit |
LFB |
Julia McMorrow |
Natural Environment Research Council (NERC)’s Knowledge Exchange section, & University of Manchester |
Kirsty Bosley |
Scottish Government – fire research and stats |
Ron Nairn |
Scottish IRS group |
David Wales |
South East Fire Investigation Group |
Rob Gazzard |
South Eastern Wildfire Information Group |
Simon Flood |
South West FRSs and Family Group 4 |
Dave Berry |
Timber Framed Association |
Tony Paish |
UK representative of the World Fire Statistics Centre |
Name |
Representing |
Response |
|---|---|---|
Alan Brinson |
BAFSA |
Info |
Carol Molsher |
Wiltshire FRS |
Info |
Claire Davey |
Wales fire stats |
Info |
David Wyatt |
LFB FRS |
Info |
Elsa Alonso |
Kent FRS |
Info |
Gillian Conway |
Cheshire FRS |
Info |
James Webb |
DCLG |
Info |
Jo Mann |
Humberside FRS |
Info |
Karen Klein |
Leicestershire FRS |
Info |
Lindsay Bennison |
Scottish Fire Statistics |
Info |
Lorraine Carney |
Electrical Safety Council |
Info |
Louise Upton |
DCLG |
Info |
Malcolm Johnston |
Info |
|
Mike Coull |
Heritage Scotland |
Info |
Mike Larking |
DCLG |
Info |
Naomi Orme |
Leicestershire FRS |
Info |
Paul Botterill |
Leicestershire FRS |
Info |
Rebecca Wyard |
ORH consultancy |
Info |
Simon Collyer |
FSC |
Info |
graham@vulcanfiretraining.co.uk |
Info |
|
gsimons@fia.uk.com |
Info |
|
sadams@bafe.org.uk |
Info |
Knowledge Hub members 24/9/12 |
|
|---|---|
Donna Abdy |
Community Risk Management Co-ordinator – Highlands and Islands Fire & Rescue Service |
Dave Baigent |
Consultant, Academic – fitting-in |
Allan Baird |
Senior Researcher – Office for National Statistics |
Cathy Barlow |
Partnership Officer – Strathclyde Fire & Rescue |
Lindsay Bennison |
Assistant Statistician – Scottish Government |
Kirsty Bosley |
Analyst – Scottish Government |
Iain Bowen |
Watch Manager IRMP – West Yorkshire Fire and Rescue Service |
Mike Burroughs |
Fire Protection and Investigation – Devon and Somerset Fire and Rescue Service |
Roger Childs |
|
Sophie Coles |
Business Analyst – Cornwall Fire and Rescue Service |
Kathleen Cowie |
Performance Information Officer – Wiltshire Fire & Rescue Service |
Jennie Crapper |
Data and Systems Manager – Oxfordshire Fire and Rescue Service |
John Curtis |
Director of Knowledge and Information Management – Merseyside Fire and Rescue Service |
Claire Davey |
Higher Statistical Officer – Welsh Assembly Government |
Jackie A Dawson |
FSEC Manager, Planning and Performance – Strathclyde Fire & Rescue |
Colin Devon |
Data Analyst – Strathclyde Fire & Rescue |
Ruth Dobson |
Service Performance Officer – NFRS |
Sue Donnelly |
Research & Intelligence Advisor – SYFR |
Martina Doolan |
Data Manager – West Midlands Fire Service |
George Ellis |
Fire Risk Data Team Leader – Oxfordshire Fire and Rescue Service |
Jonathan Evans |
Senior Analyst – LGA, Research and Information |
Simon Flood |
Performance Improvement Manager – Avon Fire & Rescue |
Diane Forman |
Performance Information Manager – Lincolnshire Fire and Rescue Service |
Rob Gazzard |
South East England Wildfire Group |
Anna Gilchrist |
Research Assistant – University of Manchester |
Tim Graham |
Head of Risk and Performance – Cleveland Fire Brigade |
Neil Griffiths |
Station Commander – West Midlands Fire Service |
Iain Hardcastle |
Project Manager – Hampshire Fire and Rescue Service |
Clare Hayles |
|
Simon Hunt |
Deputy to head of the Scottish Fire and Rescue Advisory Unit – Scottish Fire and Rescue Advisory Unit |
Richard Johnes |
Community Safety Tutor – Bourton on the Water Parish Council |
Helen Julian |
Performance Analyst – Essex Fire and Rescue Service |
Mark Kirk |
Performance and Data Manager – Essex County Fire and Rescue Service |
Rob MacDougall |
Group Manager – Oxfordshire FRS |
Catriona MacGillivray |
Service Statistician – Cumbria Fire & Rescue Service |
Alex Marshall |
Project Co-ordinator – Research and Information team, LGA |
Chris Mather |
Performance Information Analyst – Derbyshire Fire and Rescue Service |
Stephen Miles |
Performance Manager – Surrey county Council |
David Millar |
Director of corporate services – Lothian and borders fire and rescue service |
D Morris |
management research officer – Hereford & Worcester Fire and Rescue |
Shan Morris |
Corporate Planning Manager – North Wales Fire and Rescue Service |
Ron Nairn |
Watch Manager (Control) – IRMP/Strategic Support – Fife Fire and Rescue Service |
Eleanor Nash |
CCRA Project Administrator – Defra |
Andy Newland |
Executive Officer to CFO – Devon and Somerset Fire and Rescue Service |
Naomi Orme |
Planning Manager – Leicester, Leicestershire and Rutland Combined Fire Authority |
Janine Owen |
Strategic Planning Co-ordinator – Mid and West Wales Fire and Rescue Service |
Anthony Paish |
|
Sarah Parker |
Performance and Information Officer – Cheshire Fire and Rescue Service |
Di Parkin |
Equalities Practitioner – Avon Fire and Rescue Service |
Stephanie Parry |
Statistical Officer – Statistical Directorate, Welsh Assembly Government |
Hiren Patel |
Researcher and Data Analyst – Leicestershire Fire & Rescue Service |
Steve Peat |
Data Analyst – Devon and Somerset Fire and Rescue Service |
James Pepler |
Deputy Chief Actuary – Government Actuary’s Department |
Mark Perrin |
Performance Improvement Manager – Hereford & Worcester Fire and Rescue Service |
David Rae |
Group Head of Fire Safety – Fire Service College |
Stefan Raue |
Research Assistant – University of Glasgow |
Christopher Rees |
|
Marc Ritchie |
Risk Information Officer – Cheshire Fire & Rescue Service |
Ian Rowe |
Data-archivist / data analyst – DEPARTMENT FOR COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVT |
M S |
ACO – Council |
Gavin Sayer |
Head of Fire Statistics – Communities and Local Government |
Lisa Scarle |
ICT Training Supervisor – West Midlands Fire Service |
David Sibert |
IRMP Advisor – Fire Brigades Union |
Riana Smit |
Brigade Statistician – London Fire Brigade |
Nicola Smith |
Business Intelligence & Performance Manager – Cambridgeshire & Peterborough Fire and Rescue Service |
Elizabeth Spratt |
Analyst – LGA |
Ian Standeven |
IRMU Statistical Analyst – South Yorkshire Fire & Rescue Service |
Nikki Starnes |
IRS Helpdesk – Communities and Local Government |
Matthew Stokes |
IRS Web Facilitator – Communities and Local Government |
Christine Thornhill |
Officer – Derbyshire Fire and Rescue Service |
Adrian Turner |
Service Convergence Manager – Bedfordshire and Luton Fire and Rescue Service |
Geraldine Turner |
Fire Analyst ( Temporary) – West Midlands Fire Service |
Victoria Wallens |
Performance Manager – Cornwall Fire & Rescue Service |
Fran Walsh |
Watch Manager – Suffolk Fire & Rescue Service |
Nicki Whitehouse |
Performance Review Manager – Hampshire Fire and Rescue Service |
Chris Williams |
Deputy Performance Review Manager – Hampshire Fire & Rescue |
Victoria Woodward |
Analyst – Wigan Council |